mechtild: (JRRT profile)
Mechtild's ([personal profile] mechtild) wrote2014-01-03 07:54 am

Jan. 3, 2014 ~ Happy 122nd Birthday, Professor, with poem by jan-u-wine.

~*~

Happy Birthday, Professor Tolkien!



Tolkien seated in front of a tree bole, colour



Jan-u-wine has delivered yet again, writing a beautiful personal reminiscence of the Professor in narrative verse. But before the poem, a few photographs....


I posted this photograph last year, but it's one of my favourites. He's standing in front of his favourite tree in the Oxford Botanical Garden. It was taken Aug. 9, 1973, a month before he died.


Tolkien and favourite tree, 1973-08-09



There are quite a few photos of Tolkien smoking a pipe, no longer an approved pastime (however cherished by hobbits, wizards and academics of previous eras). Two of my favourites follow. I regret I do not know who photoshopped the first of the two. Note how examples of Tolkien's writing and drawing are deftly included along two of the borders.


Tolkien seated smoking, photoshopped with handwriting surround



This, perhaps, is my favourite Tolkien portrait.


Tolkien portrait, very well-known, sepia tint



The following photo shows Tolkien and his son Christopher napping together in the garden behind their Oxford house. I have always loved it as a candid snapshot offering a glimpse of Tolkien as an ordinary person, not just a Great Writer. After reading jan-u-wine's piece I found the photo more broadly applicable. Looking again, thinking of the poem, I couldn't help seeing Jan, and all us fans, as the small sleeper, experiencing through art a sense of closeness to the man who created the books and secondary world we love, as though we could share his dreams.


Tolkien and Christopher napping in back garden







Mea Cuppa


Might I borrow a cupful of hours,
a tablespoon of minutes

a teaspoon of second-hand
seconds?

I promise I shall not return them.

From the hours shall be forged memories,
whip-stitched 'round the small commas of minutes,

held
at the last,
by the small 'period' of a second.

Might I borrow these things?

Might I have just a bit more
of that which you have already
so kindly given?


~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ .* ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~ . * ~


And so, we walk among the trees,
green and swaying in the wide winds of the world,

knees knobbled by unknown Ages,
roots buried in leaves-of-Autumn-past.

And so,
we walk upon the shore,
star-grist adamant between our toes,

a long-silent leaden dog rover-ing
amongst the sea-wrack.

And so...... we talk of smials
and stars,

of curly heads
and ageless wisdom,

of malice honed sharp
as any sword

of deeds of evil
overthrown

by the bright armour
of love.

Here,
within the sweet-fogg'd lands
of your home,

is the smithy of such dear
devotion,

here,

the kindly word-smith,
forging forever

of nighted curlicues
upon a pale field.


Forever.

Just a moment
in the great river of moments,

just a rounded half-note in
the grand music
of All.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

And time runs out,
like the tide upon our life-shore,

and I lie here,
dreaming and alone,

tear-thankful that there have been
such people,

such places,
such.......

time(s).

And wishing that I might have just a
cuppa

more.




~*~









Tolkien's favourite tree today (pinus nigra in the Oxford Botanic Garden):


 Tolkien's favourite tree, the pinus nigra in the Oxford Botanic Garden, March 2009




This more distant shot shows its great height and vast canopy. The wall behind is extremely high, much taller than any person. It makes me think of the tree Niggle spent his life painting, the one he could never finish it. Or, of course, the Tree of Tales.


Tolkien's favourite tree, the pinus nigra in the Oxford Botanic Garden, recent photo






Previous entry:
Desolation of Smaug-ICON ~ 'The Desolation of Smaug' by jan-u-wine, with screencap from film.

Other Links:
Nan's Reunion-ICON ~ All entries featuring jan-u-wine's poems.

[identity profile] pearlette.livejournal.com 2014-01-07 10:39 am (UTC)(link)
Happy 2014, Mechtild!

Jan's poem is lovely and speaks for us all who adore Tolkien's beautiful mythos, I think.

Love the photos of the Tolkien family.

I rarely come to LJ now, but I had to say hello. :)

I met up last week in London with Lily, who used to post in the Harem. Her first visit to London. We had a wonderful time. We got to see David Tennant as Richard II - a superb production, one of the best Shakespeares I've ever seen, and I'm not just saying that because I fangirl Tennant, this was astounding theatre - and squee'd together over the new Sherlock series. (As much as I love Martin Freeman's Bilbo, I think I love his John Watson even more!)

It's been nearly two years since my housemate died. Time goes by so fast.

Oh, and I got to see Mariole again last June! :) And Maeglian and Meryl Marie, they were visiting Elenya. :)






[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-07 09:02 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm very, very happy you enjoyed the poem and photos, Pearl, and I'm so pleased you got to meet up with fan friends from the Golden Days! Who is Lily, though? Her name at the Harem wasn't Lily, was it? If so, she must already have left by the time I started posting there.

I'll bet Tennant was great in the role, he's such a good actor, but that the production itself was so good, that most makes me wish I'd seen it. Ian McKellen made quite the impression in that role decades ago, but I can't remember what theatre-goers thought of the production as such.

Thanks for stopping, Pearl! I think of you often, in fact every time I look at the signed Alan Lee drawing of Frodo Baggins you sent me. It is on my wall. :)

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-08 01:43 pm (UTC)(link)
Pearl! thank you so much for dropping in (LJ IS so very quiet these days!) and I'm so happy you enjoyed the post.

I'm very jealous that you saw Tennant in Richard II (as a sublime coincidence, The Shakespeare Code was on this morning!). I'll bet it was wonderful. (jealous, too, that you've already seen two of the three new Sherlocks in the UK.....we don't get to see until Sunday after next!)

I can't make it my mind about Bilbo vs John....they are both ecstatically wonderful!

I don't know Meryl Marie or Lily, but I know Maeglian a bit and used to write to Elenya, back in her ATIH days. I hope they (and you!) are doing well. a very Happy New Year to you!

[identity profile] pearlette.livejournal.com 2014-01-08 03:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Happy New Year, Jan! :)

Tennant is my favourite Doctor (although Matt Smith has been terrific and Peter Capaldi will be good - very classic Who, IMO) and 'The Shakespeare Code' is a favourite of mine - I like Martha, Shakespeare, the villains and the fun Harry Potter references! 'Deathly Hallows' makes the Doctor cry. ;)

I doubt that you will be disappointed in Sherlock series 3. I love this show to bits, and wish the BBC would commission many more episodes! And I am not embarrassed to admit that I watch it pretty much for the epic bromance, the shipping (I love Molly!) and the feels. :D

Best bromance since Frodo/Sam. :)

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-08 05:42 pm (UTC)(link)
We may have a long discussion here, Pearl! (a happy one!)

I had not watched the Dr. since Tom Baker (*my* dr) and finally was convinced to re-visit by the rising screams of Who fans all over the place (the theater for the reprise of the Christmas special WAS PACKED). Tennant pulled me in, but I freely admit that it is Smith who has my heart. Not in a "I want to tap *that*"....he's just so.....

well, i suppose he's just touching. What a great mix of humour, pathos and....wonder. I feel like I am a child again, watching him be over 1,000 years old. That's quite an accomplishment.

I thought the HP references in "Shakespeare" were hysterical, tho i missed the Dr. crying at the mention of the Hallows (I use the Who time to answer emails, write, shower, etc etc etc, so i don't always get every detail!)

I can't tell you how i LOVE LOVE LOVE Sherlock and the bromance is indeed in full force. You are right, this is very much like Frodo/Sam. But I think (without taking anything away from it) that this is sort of the prescription for tales of this nature: you have one being who is superior in some way(s) and then you have another who is their 'lesser' partner.

Only: that is not how it is. Those lesser-lit partners are of more import, perhaps, as the 'superior' one. And prove it in every moment. It's such a beautiful dichotomy. We know very well that Frodo could not have fulfilled his Quest without Sam, and we won't even mention what Sherlock's life without John.....

[identity profile] pearlette.livejournal.com 2014-01-09 11:26 am (UTC)(link)
Very happy to have a long discussion with you, dear Jan! :)

It's not as if I think Sherlock/John is particularly similar to Frodo/Sam ... I just like both bromances equally. (And both partnerships balance each other out, of course.)

(I abandoned Frodo/Sam slash many years ago because I could no longer stomach the frequent characterisation of Frodo by so many slash writers as an emo little drama queen. There seemed to be a wholesale feminisation of Frodo going on and I really started to resent it.)

Frodo is not a 'high functioning sociopath' and he doesn't have to struggle with his own nature. It's the Ring which casts a dark shadow over Frodo's life, not his personality! Whereas dear Sherlock ... :D

From the get-go, it is obvious that John is in no way Sherlock's inferior. John has the emotional intelligence. :) Sherlock is the flashy, sexy one: John is the understated one. I adore both of them. Benedict is a mesmerising Sherlock, and I won't be spoiling anything if I say that series 3 reveals more of Sherlock's human side. But I think I love John even more. John is the guy I'd want to date! Not Sherlock, as complex and wonderful as the TV character is. And I love how John, too, has a bit of a dark side at times. Martin Freeman is just so damn good in this role.

Re: The Shakespeare Code, the Doctor says dreamily to Martha, "Wait til you read Book 7. I cried ..." :D

Matt Smith is, to my mind, perhaps the most Doctor-y of all of them.

You will LOVE this, if you haven't seen it already - Wholock! One of the best edited fan things I've ever seen, and talk about a fangirl implosion. ;) The Eleventh Doctor and Sherlock!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bGYljQ5Uw

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-10 03:38 pm (UTC)(link)
You two! One of these days I'll have to start watching Dr. Who. :)

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 05:34 am (UTC)(link)
you should! If for no other reason that many fine and interesting actors pop up in episodes. The one i'm watching now, for instance, features both Mr. Weasley and Lestrade, or, more specifically, their acting alter egos....

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, I love that actor's work as Mr. Weasley. What great casting.

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 08:42 pm (UTC)(link)
p e r f e c t casting. the whole Weasley fam: adorable.

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-17 10:36 pm (UTC)(link)
Absolutely. I can't get over how much the twins, who are no relation to him, look like their dad, and how much Ginny, who is no relation, looks like older brother Percy. Ron and Bill Weasley look a good deal alike, but they are certainly no relation off screen (I did not know till you told me that the actor who played Bill is Brendan Gleeson's son!).

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-17 10:51 pm (UTC)(link)
truly eerie, (or "EARY" if you're George)
Edited 2014-01-19 23:07 (UTC)

(no subject)

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com - 2014-01-19 23:33 (UTC) - Expand

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-17 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
and this morning there was an episode with Filch in it. But instead of being a bumbling bad guy, he was a full-on evil bastard.

and, against his norm, the Dr let him get his comeuppance. and even facilitated it. amazing.

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-17 10:38 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know David Bradley's work outside of the Harry Potter films, but, looking him up, he's been in a lot of stuff, and lots of stage work, too. I think the Harry Potter films must have rounded up more "best actors" from the U.K. than any other film (or film series, to be fair).

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-11 01:26 am (UTC)(link)
omg, Pearl. I just spent over a half hour typing a reply to this, and i went to post it and it disappeared.

ARRRRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!


good heavens. I'm really angry right now! I'll cut and paste your message and pm you and perhaps we can continue this off site, where perhaps the posting will be more friendly.......



[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-11 03:21 pm (UTC)(link)
okay, I'm ready to have another go at answering!

I have to agree that S/J is not in main similar to F/S. It's just, I suppose, that 'hero/side-kick' relationships have common elements, and that is what makes them so attractive to writers. It's such a luxury to write the common elements, and then take off in flight writing the unique elements. There are certain truths that hold true for me when I am writing pieces from LOTR (I don't really write S/J, as I don't have the sense, at least yet, of the characters). When I write Frodo, he's always got Sam somewhere there in his mind. And Sam always has Frodo somewhere in his heart. It isn't a conscious thought with me......it's part of writing in these voices. It's part of hero/side-kick character truth, imo. The wonderful ying/yang of the thing, with the intellect balanced by the organic heart.

It's like God-love (agape, a more far-off love) being balanced (and made larger thereby)by philia (human, brotherly love, such love as is immediate and 'close' in terms of our humanity).

Anyway, onward.

I think that I quite understand why slashers (or many of them) write Frodo as the emo d/q. I think we partially have Petey to blame for that, since he, by omission or commission, cut off poor Frodo's appendages, made him ever so much a different/less person than book Frodo was. Then there is the nature of slash/man-love itself. In a general sort of way, one of the partners is going to be less male than the other. One is going to be, shall we say, beta to the other one's alpha. And then it's just a matter of degree. And sometimes just sloppy, easy writing to take a Frodo who is by nature gentle, kind, a sort of dreamer(all things we unfortunately may associate with weakness and.......gayness?) and then has been undermined by the horrors of the Quest and just make him a clinging wife to *his* Sam. (but I also understand why you gave up on reading sappy slash)

No, Frodo certainly is no sociopath. But imho, he has issues that pre-date the Quest (don't we all) and that were brought to a terrible point after. He's just as emotionally in need of balancing as Sherlock. Sherlock just really (as played by BC), IS a drama queen. Frodo is really not so. But it makes you wonder: Frodo is most definitely and obviously compromised during the latter parts of the Quest and post-Quest. You don't see him so pre-Quest. But ....was what held him together the constancy of his life then? The lovely order of it.

But, when you think of it, that is what holds most of us together, holds the demons which lurk inside at bay: the normalcy and pattern of our lives, with the people and things that we hold dear at our sides. Take those things away, and the demons may come out to play. And that is really what happened to Frodo, in a large way. But no, no sociopath was he.

Sherlock and John as dating possibilities: actually, I would not want to date either of them, John being very much too dedicated to Sherlock. Right now (and for the 'past two years') he thinks Sherlock is dead and has become dedicated to someone else. How all of these relationships will be tested! (we have not had any of the new series yet in the US). It will be interesting to see how John copes with having two ultimately important and priority relationships in his life. We already know Sherlock won't cope well!

part deux

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-11 03:22 pm (UTC)(link)
i'm having to post my reply in two parts, sorry!

As to Sherlock, the only one who could possibly deal with him is Irene, a woman of intelligence and verve to match his own, and one who enjoys and is curious about darkness. He's too flash and too dangerous for anyone else, i should think. Still....dinner would be interesting, wouldn't it?

Martin is so wonderful in all his roles. It's the tiny details that get you The quirk of the mouth, the tiny squint of the eye. the little language of the hands. (also a Matt Smith constant, but of course on a much larger scale!)

Harry Potter made The Dr. cry? well, I can see that. The Dr, I think, could well empathize with Harry's journey. Lovely moment. I'll have to rent and watch it properly.

Matt Smith: well, Tom Baker was "my" Dr. But I have to say: i tuned into BBC one day by accident and the Dr. was on. The moment Matt hit the screen was a ....heart moment. Without really being sure that this was The Dr....i was sure that he *was*. Not taking anything away from Tennant, for without his Doctor, this one would not be possible. So, that is even more lovely, isn't it? And when you see them together....well, that is the most beautiful bit of work i've ever been honored to see.

I had (just barely) seen that video. It really is amazing. I doubt that Sherlock would ever do a Dr. Who insert......but mightn't the Dr do a SHerlock one? Unfortunately, it will have to be Capaldi's, I reckon, and that would really spoil the premise, since i think it really needs to be either Tennant or Smith. Or maybe even Eccleston. Now, wouldn't THAT be interesting, since Eccleston is awfully close, on the surface, to being a socio-path.

well, now must run. I hope this posts!

Re: part deux

[identity profile] pearlette.livejournal.com 2014-01-12 12:27 am (UTC)(link)
Hi Jan, thanks for this. It's late here and I only have time to respond in brief. I do get what you mean by the hero/sidekick aspect, and agree. Frodo/Sam balance each other out so very well as a pairing. (I don't mean just as a slash pairing, I mean in general.) Both become indispensable to the other. Frodo would not have survived Mordor without Sam ... but Frodo is also the making of Sam. Frodo is the mind, Sam is the heart. Frodo is moonlight, Sam is the sunny earth-child. Etc etc etc.

I'm just back from my third viewing of Desolation of Smaug. I do enjoy the film very much, despite all of PJ's unnecessary padding.

Martin is such a great Bilbo. But his Bilbo is so gloriously (and canonically) kick-ass that it make me wonder how the hell Film Frodo could ever have been his nephew ... I love the films but that was such an opportunity lost.

And you're right about dating John. It would be a threesome. ;) And Irene and Sherlock together are a bit terrifying. :p

Re: part deux

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-12 06:16 pm (UTC)(link)
You know, seeing Martin's Bilbo made me wonder somewhat the same thing....only....differently....

it was PJ that cut Frodo's balls off. Book Frodo, tho surely much different from Bilbo, was a brave soul, and surely not a drama queenish person.

So....PJ saw a reason to make Frodo look like that, just as he has a reason to present Bilbo in such a light.

The way these characters are written for the film versions i see as sort of amplifications of how they are in book verse (or amplifications of how they are interpreted by PJ & CO in book verse):

Bilbo the rascal (who had to be padded out into some more ballsy sort of hobbit for the films, if they were to work), who decided on an Adventure. (you can use that one point alone to extrapolate the rest of it, if you will (and PJ will, to be sure),

vs.

Frodo the thinker, the orphan (damaged and lonely or not) who enjoyed hearing and reading of Quests, but did not go upon one until it was thrust upon him.

Even in the simplest terms, they were very different people to begin with. But I think it's telling that Bilbo choose that Adventure, and Frodo's adventure, in a very real way, choose HIM.

I find it more moving than anything that Bilbo adopted Frodo, who really was not like (his younger) self at all. What did he see? A bright and perhaps lonely lad, but one who had a spark of difference that, although not like his own, touched Bilbo deeply. Frodo would not ever be a warrior hobbit. But Bilbo, having been one such, would know all about the worth (and non-worth) of that. It's quite flash to go one on one with a sword against an orc, but it's kick-ass of quite another degree to wrestle with the Dark Lord for the salvation of an entire world.

Bilbo saw, i guess, in the young Frodo, exactly what we see in the 'old' one: a reservoir of pure and vigorous love.

Part Deux: A Different Perspective

[identity profile] diem-kieu94.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 06:07 am (UTC)(link)
Well, before I begin, I'd like to say it is absolutely wonderful to be back on LiveJournal and speaking amongst such excellent bloggers in the new year of 2014!!

While I can honestly say that I have read the books, I also must say that I am far keener in knowledge when it comes to the films. I am one of the few and very odd folk who ended up watching the LOTR films before I read Tolkien's original trilogy. I have written about how I became a Lord of the Rings fan on one of metchild's previous posts, as well as on Word Press for a class I took last fall!

it was PJ that cut Frodo's balls off. Book Frodo, tho surely much different from Bilbo, was a brave soul, and surely not a drama queenish person.


I am sorry to say this, but it was Film-Frodo that I fell in love with first (although not necessarily Elijah Wood himself), and so it pains me when I hear or read that he has somehow been castrated or weakened - although I must admit I do constantly find myself trying in some way or another to empower him whenever I do a work of fan art and/or fanfiction involving our dear Frodo!

When I read the books, I constantly found myself imagining scenes that weren't in the films as if PJ somehow HAD incorporated them in... (.i.e. the bath at Crickhollow, the encounter with Tom Bombadil, the Arwen-less battle against the Nazgul, the nude Frodo in Cirith Ungol, Sharkey, and etc., etc....)

In short, while it is a given that Tolkien's work is the very origin of the fandom (and this blog), I cannot swallow the aspect of viewing PJ's films as an abomination, as Christopher Tolkien and some Middle-Earth fans have done - because where would I be without them?

[identity profile] pearlette.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 10:22 am (UTC)(link)
Hi there diem_kieu94! Hail and well met. ;) I am delighted that people came to the books through the films, and want to reassure you that I in no way regard the films as an ‘abomination’. (As much as I respect Christopher Tolkien, I am sorry he is so hostile to the films, because they really brought his father's work back into mainstream popular culture – where it deserves to be. LotR deserves to be as much part of the British legendarium as the Arthurian mythos and Robin Hood!)

I'm a realist about the process of adaptation and I enjoy the films enormously, whilst reserving my right to critique aspects of them.

I can understand people falling in love with Film Frodo, as he is very beautiful! I had quite the fling with him myself, at one point. ;) However, my ardour has cooled since the heady days of LotR film fandom, and I wish now that Elijah had been thirty, not twenty, during filming, as I think that might have made a difference to how PJ saw the character of Frodo - as more mature, with more inner steel.

Book Frodo had his detractors long before the films came out. I joined Tolkien online fandom about two years before the release of FotR and to my chagrin discovered that a few long-time fans really didn't like Frodo very much -they saw him as a depressive wimp who couldn't have completed the Quest without Sam. Which is true, but then Sam couldn't have destroyed the Ring on his own either.

Maybe PJ saw Frodo in a similar way. In which case, it would seem to me that the obvious thing for a film director to do is to beef up the central protagonist (which is exactly what PJ did with Martin Freeman's Bilbo, to my delight) - not wimpify him further.

But I agree with Jan about this. PJ systematically deprived Frodo of all the small signature moments that build up Frodo's heroic profile. E.g. in the book, Frodo has the inner strength to resist putting on the Ring when the Black Rider is crawling towards him in the woods of the Shire - in the film, Sam grabs Frodo's hand to prevent Frodo from succumbing to the Ring's power. And this keeps on happening in the films - do we ever actually see Film Frodo resisting the power of the Ring in his own strength? In the book, Frodo is the ONLY hobbit to actually lash out at the Nazgul on Weathertop: Merry and Pippin are quaking with terror and Sam shrinks to his master's side - in the film, all the other hobbits stand their ground with their little swords, Sam lashes out at the Ringwraiths ... and Frodo drops his sword. I have no quarrel with PJ making the other three hobbits more heroic - again, it's exactly what I would do were I making a film of LotR, because I wouldn't want the audience thinking these little guys are a bunch of useless wimps. What was disappointing was that Frodo's heroism got undercut yet again. And so this pattern in the films was repeated over and over ... Frodo frequently falling over, Frodo acting like a damsel in distress with Sam helping him out, Frodo apparently being a naïve and trusting idiot about Gollum, whereas in the book Frodo has no illusions about Gollum yet is willing to act redemptively and give Gollum a chance.

To this day, popular Facebook memes frequently laud Sam as the true hero of LotR. Yes, I realise that Tolkien did say that. ;) But in fact he describes both Frodo and Sam as heroes. I like Sam, and don't resent his heroic status. I do think it's a crying shame that Frodo got so sidelined. As I said: opportunity lost. :)

I sound more bitter about this than I actually am. I don't lose sleep over it, and there are far more important things in RL to stress about. ;)

There are also Frodo-moments in the films which give me some compensation. I liked how PJ handled Frodo's moment when he claims the Ring in the Sammath Naur, for example. 'Don't mess with me, I'm a Ring-bearer'. I so wanted to see more of that, though. :)

I'll end with one of my favourite quotes from the Letters:

"Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could ... "
Letter no. 246

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 01:21 pm (UTC)(link)
dear Pearl....if only I'd read your comment first, I might not have written my own.

(I hope we don't come off as rabid Frodo fans)

Wait.

Yes, I do.......

[identity profile] mechtild.livejournal.com 2014-01-17 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Pearl, weren't you "Di" ("Diamond of Long Cleve"?)at TORC, and didn't you originate a wonderful thread, "Di's Heartfelt Plea" to the Jackson/Walsh/Boyens writing team to cease the ruination of Frodo's role, already evident in FOTR? (Obviously, they didn't heed your plea.)

I must say, reading your discussion with Jan made me recollect those days with a nostalgic, appreciative sigh. What discussions were then had -- and this could have been one of them.

Thanks so much, both of you, for this engaged and engaging discussion!

I will copy and paste a version of this for Jan or she won't receive a notice of reply.

Re: Part Deux: A Different Perspective

[identity profile] jan-u-wine.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 01:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Happy New Year to you, Diem!

I think there are many people who came to LOTR through first viewing the films. And there are many of us who still love the movies and are glad that they were made even if they were not faithful to the books (which they never really claimed to be, saying honestly that they were an adaptation).

In this particular discussion, though, we were, of course, talking specifically about film Frodo vs book Frodo. And the problem is that, film Frodo, although a wonderful and heroic person in his own right, is very different from the Frodo you know if you read the books first.

I can't tell you how many film fans have said that Frodo was not fit to be the Ringbearer, being a weak-spirited coward, among other things. This is a concept that comes from omissions/commissions in the films, little or large moments where moments that made book Frodo who he was were deducted or wrongly added.

(as examples: a moment so small as having Frodo simply fall to the ground in terror, NOT stabbing at the Witch King on Weather-Top, a moment where, instead of him being shown to be brave and in control of his own destiny even tho wounded, he is, since he cannot fend for himself, saved by Arwen upon the road to Rivendell and at the Ford, and (a major moment and certainly not in the book) the moment upon the walls of Osgiliath where he seems to be offering the Ring to the Nazgul (or claiming it himself, equally damning, considering where in the time-line he is). Or the other huge and character-undermining moment of sending Sam home, which flies in the face of all canon and in the face of character-logic even if you've never read the book)

In all of these moments,and more, the character of Frodo is changed, it is diminished. The *spirit* beloved by book readers from the 1950's onward is there, yes, but the moments that make up that spirit are altered, giving him a much different aspect from the 'true' Frodo, as written by Tolkien. (and we must go with the original, since it is not Jackson who created Middle Earth. It is Tolkien, and he wrote as he wrote for reasons well thought out and necessary). We can easily see, from watching the movies ourselves, and reading/listening to the comments of other fans, that the character of Frodo in the films has been altered.

I have never called the movies an abomination, and do not think them so. I am glad they were made, since so many people who otherwise might never have read Tolkien now have. But I must also say that people who saw the movies first and fell in love with *those* characters have a pre-disposition to accept that films as 'truth'. And why would they not? I read the books first, and I accept them as 'truth', so it is entirely understandable that, whatever came first in your own personal time-line is the version that is more acceptable.

On the third hand, I understand any fan who does feel the films are an abomination. Christopher Tolkien and any of the Tolkien family are in a class of 'fan' utterly by themselves, although the family, as well, has been divided on what they find right in terms of adaptations of JRR's works. If I were Christopher, having devoted my entire life to the preservation and proper presentation of my father's work, I would likely hate the film adaptations, too, and seek to prevent any further such (for one thing, since that is apparently what JRRT wanted, as he would not have sold the rights to LOTR had he not needed money to, ironically, secure his children's futures). And if I were JRR's grandson, removed at least somewhat from the intimate relationship that Christopher would have had with JRRT, I would likely favor more adaptations.

I am glad that you came to LOTR fandom and remain glad that PJ made the movies. I, for one, would never have written in the LOTR universe without them. They are to be celebrated for the wonderful works they are. My gratitude and joy in them does not change what they did, however, which was to change crucial arcs and aspects of Middle Earth. And for that, I continue to be very sorry, like a parent who knows their child is so much more (through knowing the complete and true history of the child) than how they are perceived (by the lack of knowing that history) by the rest of the world
Edited 2014-01-13 13:18 (UTC)

Re: Part Deux: A Different Perspective

[identity profile] diem-kieu94.livejournal.com 2014-01-13 04:44 pm (UTC)(link)

Hannon-le to you both for your lovely comments!!

Yes, I do see how in some parts of the film how Frodo has been weakened. I remember one scene in particular that bothered me this way in FOTR where he was dragged by a water monster into the lake near the mines of Moria, only to be sent tumbling into the arms of Boromir. At that moment, he did indeed look like a damsel in distress!

*Sigh*... but I love him anyway! Pearlette, I think I've seen some of your Frodo-loving comments before. I remember being so relieved to discover that there were other people out there who were having the same reactions as I was!!

As I mentioned in my previous post, I am constantly trying to somehow empower Frodo via fan art and fan fiction as a result of working with Peter Jackson's portrayal, as if to try to bring Frodo's image back into equilibrium, my latest attempt to date being a crossover with Disney's Brave.

Perhaps it is simply the price to pay for falling with such a beautiful character. If that is it, I am more than happy to pay it. ;)

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